Posts by Had Enough

6

Fred Franz& the Flag Salute Deception!

by metatron in

jw
friends

the watchtower society has long-established habits of half-truths,.

misquotations, and deception.

the subject of the flag-salute is.

Had Enough

Hello metatron:

Thank you for bringing out yet another of Fred Franz's deceptive mistranslations.

I find this so incredible to comprehend how he thought he could "get away" with this type of "crime". I say "crime" because that's what it boils down to. His crime is that he has stolen peoples lives, in so many ways--timewise and actually physically,--and we all let him because of our blind trust that he was directed by God, a favoured one.

Just how many more things did we believe because of his deceptive mistranslating????

And to think I used to admire him because he spoke of such deep things that I thought I just wasn't spiritual enough to understand him.

This has been quite a learning day for me.

Had Enough (but still hungry to learn more)

17

1961 WT on Blood and today's "light"

by qwerty in

jw
friends

we've all been given the new advanced health "care" directive at our book groups.

talk about feeling pressured into a situation.

we have to take forms home, read them, tick what medical care info our consciense will allow if we are in a life or death situation.

Had Enough

Hi qwerty:

Very interesting post...thanks.

We have to take forms home, read them, tick what medical care info our consciense will allow if we are in a life or death situation. Then take the form back and have our signiture witnessed by two others

Do you know when this new Health Care Directive was handed out and if this and the forms needing to be filled out, will be given to those of us who are inactive and haven't been to a book study or the hall for a couple of years (except for memorials and assemblies)?

What would happen to someone like me who is inactive and was faced with a medical emergency and they don't have this form on record of my choices?

Does my inactivity now exempt me because I am no longer "witnessing" or am I still technically considered a JW?

I know they "say" they don't df anyone who accepts blood, but they do take it as an indication they no longer are JWs and consider them da'd. Big difference eh?

I know 30-40 years ago, a young brother, who had not been to a meeting in over 5 years, had a blood transfusion and was df'd over it.

Do they still do that to inactive ones?

Appreciate any answers in this matter. Thanks!

Had Enough

25

Good Afternoon!

by VeniceIT in

jw
friends

well i know this isn't like my usual posts but bear with me.

i know there are blowups on this board, and i guess not everyone gets a long 100%, 100% of the time, but we all have a bond that keeps bringing us back--pain.

we here have all suffered at the hands a merciless cult, and i know many have sufferd more then the rest of us can ever comprehend.. i miss my family and friends, somedays it's almost more then i can bear, but get by.

Had Enough

Hi Venice:

We've never chatted in the chatroom but I do read your posts and your sense of humour always makes me laugh. I too have admired the way you and your family stood up to the elders and fired all your ammunition at them for hours and how your father exposed the underhandedness and stupidity of the borg in the parking fiasco.

I know how you feel not being able to see family members and have health crises to deal with as I have been in the situation too.

It's heartbreaking to say the least. I've lived through the humiliation when I was df'd of having a non-blood relative be the one to phone me to tell me my family will ALLOW me to visit my father in the hospital at such and such a time and day, because he could be on his death-bed and they won't be there.

I still weep over the feeling of desperation I had over not being allowed to see him even before he was in the hospital because my family lived within eye-sight of his apt. He wanted to see me but was threatened that the elders would have to be informed if I came there..and I weep over the memories I have of how I cried as I drove to his town to the hospital wondering if he would still be alive when I got there.

I know there are plenty more people all over who have suffered the same and even more that I have...and that just makes it worse to think that. To think that this so-called brotherhood swimming in love, can have that kind of effect on people's lives and tear their families apart and THEN to blame it all on us, just make me sick.

Thank you for sharing your feelings here with us Venice....It really does help us all no matter what level of recovery we are at.

Had Enough

ps: I hope someday you will tell us some of the material you and your mom prepared for your committee meeting that lasted 5 hours instead of the 15 minutes the elders thought. I wish we could have seen them squirm. HAHA (your laugh is much better though)

pps: I want to see 'Pearl Harbour' too...thanks for the warning..I cry at weddings so I'll go armed with plenty of kleenex.

59

Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit

by Maximus in

jw
friends

while much attention is given to doctrine in sites such as this, very little is noted about the watchtower societys intellectual dishonesty in its publications, especially when it comes to quotations.. oftentimes the societys writers will cite a scholar or author of some repute: "professor blank observes that blah, blah, blah.

" the reader assumes from the quotation that professor blank is in agreement with the organizations position, of course, and that the quotation chosen accurately depicts the authors thoughts.. heres the catch: the words between the quotation marks may be accurate, but the snippet may not at all faithfully represent someones actual thesis or position.

much like a newspaper ad for a movie that quotes a reviewer as saying "monumental!

Had Enough

Hello Maximus:

I must say I'm relatively new to these discussion forums but I too, in the last few months, have learned more here than in my more that 4 decades from the WTS...or shall I say more TRUTH. I truly appreciate your sharing this information with us.

Someone said a few days ago, that learning what we have been learning here from all you who have done such extensive research, has been like receiving a strong blow to the gut, and can't catch our breath.

That's what I feel like again!!! How much more is out there that we have been deceived on? These deliberate misrepresentations in quoting respected authors to back up their doctrines is just deplorable.

I started out thinking that the GB is NOT really TRYING to deceive us, just maybe are mistaken and caught up in the enthusiasm of their 'understanding' of the Bible and their efforts to make us stand apart from Christendoms' false teachings.

I can't accept that anymore....I now fully know they, and I mean the real head honchos like Fred Franz and his righthand henchmen writers, were and are deliberatly doing this. There are too many examples being exposed, by you fine gentlemen researching these publications, that cannot be ignored. Blatant, deliberate misrepresentation!!

And some people wonder why we get angry and hurt when we find these things out?

I add my disgust to the ones who ask "what about all the lives this kind of barbaric lie has cost? What about the families totally torn apart by the WTS enforcement of df'ing those who have given in to taking a blood transfusion?"

But now its OK to take fractions...but let's not go back and reinstate those who were df'd before we allowed this... NO...that would be admitting WE were wrong and everybody knows WE, the GB, are directed by God...new light and all..We're not perfect but we ARE directed by God. And now we won't df anyone who takes blood, just will consider them as making their choice and have da'd themselves.

I'd better quit now before my blood pressure pops.

Had Enough

9

Recognized by Baptism or Service Report?

by Josh in

jw
friends

i have been wondering for a while now:are jw's recognized as such by their public baptism or by .

the service report they turn in every month?.

when i was studying,i was constantly told that to become a jehovah's witness,one had to make a. public declaration by getting baptized.2 1/2 yrs after i was baptized,i was stripped of all my privileges.

Had Enough

Hello Josh and fellow Canuck:

Welcome to our board.

You made an interesting comment about required hours.

What I could never reconcile was that the GB would say that hours really didn't matter if you were putting in all you could (remember the widow's mite?). If you put in a couple hours a month and that was all you could do according to your circumstances, then God was happy with that and no one should question you...yet in the same breath, the elders, under the direction of the CO and from the GB, turn around and restrict privileges from those not meeting the quota of hours, which always seemed to be this magical number of 10.

Yes, as JT says, the arrangement is bad.

Just another thing that, when I was an active JW, crossed my mind, but never dwelt on it because there was no answer.

As esther says:

Maybe the publisher numbers are declining because more people are realising that the GB does not have divine direction

I hope this is a contributing factor in the decline...it maybe shows the more of the r&f are starting to 'think'!

Had Enough

7

Pictures in French/Italian editions of the WT

by Osarsif in

jw
friends

from: http://user.online.be/~gd34048/subliminal3a.html.

w99 15/2 3 french/italian:.

no long skirts for italian jw?

Had Enough

Interesting find Osarsif:

I too don't understand this obsession with long skirts.

The GB obviously as not had to wear one to assembly and try to manage climbing those stairs with both arms full with bags and/or babies. How do we hold our skirts up without tripping up the stairs? or In service in the winter snow...ever try to manage trudging through the snow with a long skirt getting snow covered.

I like a long flowing skirt in the summer sometimes for it's comfort but at assemblies, service, and for winter warmth and comfort, a pantsuit as Ozzie suggested would make so much more sense.

It was really nice when they were allowed for service for a short time.

Had Enough

10

WT was Right About THIS!!

by JT in

jw
friends

i am sure all of us will agree with the wt on these 2 quotes:.

######"you will find valuable information in the older publications.

" {kmin jan 1988 7}.

Had Enough

JT says:

here we have a group of guys who claim that they rely on Divine directions and the bible yet what we see is a flip flop In dogma.
so for any Loyal JW – it is and always will be the WT own Paper trail of teachings that change as often as I Change Drawers that will continue to be the best example of why their claim of :
We speak for God is so weak

and

Francoise says:

The Internet, the World Wide Web has done more than we possibly could have imagined just a few years ago to help us in our effort to rip the cover off the Borg and reveal it for what it is.

I so totally agree with your statements from my own experience. I at first stayed away from websites even when I was reading Crisis of Conscience and getting my eyes so opened just with that. I trusted that info because it was from Ray and what he was saying was so logical and put forth so humbly but I still thought that what I would find at so-called "apostate sites" would be obviously lies and twisted "truths".

When I finally visited a web site, I was awe-struck at the info I started reading of the 'flip-flop' doctrines and the seeing things they said all pulled together in subjects to be able to compare. Especially reading what they taught before 1940 opened my eyes. The Proclaimers book only touches this by saying that in it's early beginnings they were just young as an organization and made a few mistakes but soon God directed them and corrected them, and we all fell for that.

I have no access to these pubs. myself, so to read what they were so-called "directed by God" to write back then made my jaw drop in disbelief. It became so obvious that God would not cause them to write lies to mislead us for awhile, only to cause them to "get new light" and change and then "get new light" again and change back to the first thought.

It feels so good now to be able to have this info at my fingertips via the web and my hat goes off to all the writers who are dedicated to inform all they can about the misguidance and abusive control the WTS had misused over the years and the skeletons the WTS has tried so hard to hide.

jurs
Don't worry...I do understand what you were saying in your post earlier.

i thought i'd read outrageous lies and false beliefs ' instead most everything i read i already knew, it just took someone else to articulate what i already knew

That is so true for the ordinary JW. Sometimes it takes getting hit over the head with something to get our attention, then, bingo...all of a sudden the pieces start falling into place and we see the big picture.

The beautiful service these info sites are doing for us is to pull together all these little pieces of info we've read, or seen happen, or experienced...whatever...and help us to be able to analyse the whole thing.

My first gut reaction to all I have found out in the last couple of months about pedophilia, misuse of funds, skeletons in the closet at HQs, the info on blood that the ordinary r&f like me is kept in the dark about, and how widespread the disruption of families is due to df'ing and shunning and much more...was complete and utter shock. Now I applaud all who join in with whatever info they can provide to further educate all who visit these sites for whatever reason.

I truly believe the web will rock the very foundation of the WTS and whether it causes it to crumble or to completely restructure for the better...I don't know yet. I only feel that only good will have to come to the basic r&f.

Thank you JT for putting together this info for us. It's a keeper.

Had Enough

19

Who Will Cry For the Babies?

by Farkel in

jw
friends

here's something i found on kent's site just now.

i wrote it december last.

i didn't know that he purloined it but then again, he purloins lots of stuff, and furthermore i don't save most of what i write.

Had Enough

Hi Tina:

So many have wept also over the futility of it all,the frustration,the anger

That's one of the strongest drawing cards that brings so many of us here and keeps us here....knowing that we are not alone in what we experienced, have felt and are now feeling...just knowing that others understand. That's what makes the tears flow and then helps to dry them up too.

Facing reality is tough for all of us but the helping of each other that I see here, is more than I've seen in my lifetime with the borg. So thanks for your kind words to me and all the others you encourage too.

I now have many more happy days than I've had for a long while...and I know I'll have many more when I see what so many others have gone through and are getting stronger. Reading posts like Farkel's is tough for us new ones and for many longtime outers too, but it's so needed to cut through the sludge in our minds that's been caused by the time we've spent in "robot mode".

Hey somebody:
Maybe we've all wept enough for today. I'm all out of kleenex. Ahhhh...feel better now. At least I think we're alert enough now not to get lulled into being "stepford wives" again.

luv to you guys....Had Enough

76

I attended the meeting tonight.....

by silentlambs in

i went to the meeting tonight to check out things in the local congregation.

this spiritual paradise is showing a few cracks.

when i arrived about ten minutes before the meeting started, i felt like a ghost.

Had Enough

Hey Joel:

I guess what it all boils down to is we'll have to wait and see the results of what is being done to expose this horrible situation.

And I guess the result of his actions in the hall will depend on the onlooker...some may be jolted by his mimics as to how ridiculous the society's instructions are in having an attendant follow him everywhere, even to the bathroom, and some may react smugly and continue turning their back on the reality of what's going on....only time will tell.

I know that you and I and we all are on one common ground....being grateful at least, that this is coming out in the open and will finally have to be dealt with so that no more will a child go unprotected.

Had Enough

76

I attended the meeting tonight.....

by silentlambs in

i went to the meeting tonight to check out things in the local congregation.

this spiritual paradise is showing a few cracks.

when i arrived about ten minutes before the meeting started, i felt like a ghost.

Had Enough

Hey Tallyman:

And where are those funds for all the lawyers coming from?

From the donations of the little children the Awake published (as I read yesterday on someone's thread but can't remember the real names) like little Johnny who saved his allowance and sent $2.00 or little Ashley who sent in her .50 cents and so on and so on.

Hmmmm.....money from children for lawyers to defend the WTS's right to harbour the very perverts who might just turn around and molest little Johnny or little Ashley. Good work WTS!!!

Hi Joelbear:

I usually agree with your take on many issues but I have to say one more thing about Silentlambs actions.

Yes, child-molestation is nothing to make light of, but to turn around and mimic the stupid actions of the attendant only throws the stupidity of the "follow him wherever he goes" type instructions right back in the face of the elders. Sometimes the "here's what you look like" approach makes a loud enough noise to humiliate the one doing it in the first place...not for the sake of humiliating him and getting even but to show loud and clear the hypocricy of it what they're doing.

This is just one incident and I don't believe it is typical of the way he is conducting the whole issue. From what I've seen so far, this is being handled in a very serious, conscientious manner.

Had Enough